“Our marriage preparation system is not only insufficient but from our point of view it is even demotivating. Sitting around the table and talking about the topics of Christian marriage is quite unattractive for today’s betrothed,” said the Ďurinovci couple, who participated in the preparations for the marriage.Veronika Ďurinová is an ophthalmologist and her husband Juraj Ďurina is a gastroenterologist, they have three children. Both are committed Catholics, used to serving in the church among families or with children.
When the parish asked them to be involved as doctors in the preparation of couples for sacramental marriage, they gladly agreed and together with other couples organized courses for engaged couples. Today, they speak openly about why they left this service.
“Betrothed today can’t even communicate with each other, they don’t know each other. We can later reach God through natural human themes. But imagine having to talk about natural family planning to people who not only can’t pray, but can’t even talk honestly with each other. In the church, we should already openly name what the reality is in this area, what kind of people and in what situations go to betrothal preparations,” the Ďurinovs claim in the interview.
As a married couple, you were involved in the pre-marriage preparations of the betrothed in your parish. How would you characterize the couples who attended marriage preparation?
Veronika: In the parish, we were approached as doctors to talk to engaged couples about natural family planning. However, we soon understood that we were talking about the icing on the cake to people who don’t even have a corpus.
Every time I came to these preparations, I was worried that it wasn’t supposed to look like this. The topic of natural family planning is on very thin ice even among practicing people in the church. Some accept it only from the point of view that it is a nice eco-bio method, because it does not burden the human body and the environment, while others struggle with the fact that its strict observance means the gradual loss of joy from sexuality, which is also God’s plan for sexuality.
In addition, we mostly had couples in front of us who already lived together under the same roof. So it looked like we were explaining the basic principles of natural family planning to them and they perceived us as people from another planet.
We understood that this is not the right way.
In the Diocese of Bratislava, there are ten topics for premarital preparation, which the engaged couple must complete when they want to get married in the church. In our parish in the Diocese of Nitra, due to the lack of active lay people, they had to complete only three topics.
What were the topics?
Veronika: Priorities of Christian marriage. Differences between a man and a woman – communication in marriage. Natural methods of family planning (PPR) – sexuality in marriage. And we had all these topics within one day. Only three couples participated in the preparations, so it was not within our power to cover ten topics.
We understood that it cannot continue like this, we cannot hide behind a PowerPoint presentation, it must lead us to dialogue.
So it looked like we were explaining the basic principles of natural family planning to them and they perceived us as people from another planet.
We saw that the engaged people did not accept this, so we encouraged them to express what they really think, to be open, but almost no one was interested. We were surprised by this, we expected that young people, who grew up unencumbered by communist ideology, would be bolder in expressing their attitudes.
Juraj: I asked them openly, for example if their parents had ever talked to them about sexuality, the answer was a clear no. Gradually, we understood more and more who we have in front of us, so we reworked our presentation.
Were they not quiet because they need to go through the preparation without problems, since they want to get married at the altar?
Juraj: Yes, from their reactions it was felt that many do not want to enter into a dialogue, because they need a paper about graduation in order to have a wedding in a church. Therefore, they did not engage in any controversies. We tried to create a free, relaxed space for dialogue, yet they did not feel like confronting us with their opinions. I would understand if they had respect for the authority of the church, for the priest, but we are a relatively young couple, and they were quiet anyway.
It was clear to us from the way of communication that many of them may be in a Christian environment for the first time. We met only a very small percentage of engaged people who would like to live their Christianity in a close relationship with God.
How did you come to the conclusion that talking to your fiancé especially about natural methods would not be the best way to go?
Juraj: From our experience with couples, we came to the conclusion that these people should first meet God. We talked to them about things they couldn’t even understand. It’s like teaching someone to paint and you want them to immediately paint a replica of Da Vinci, even though they don’t even know the basic techniques of painting.
Plus, we have encountered in our community among sincerely believing people that they do not understand natural methods of family planning. How then can we ask cultural Catholics to identify with this?
Moreover, they were mature people, often in their thirties. Some of them already had children together. It happened to us that they stopped us laughing, telling them not to talk about sexuality, because they already have two children at home.
Finally, we talked with them about sexuality as such, which in today’s world is distorted, focused on performance, efficiency and often detached from the relationship between partners. And our personal experience clearly shows that as the quality of the relationship grows, so does the dimension and quality of sexuality.
Veronika: Everyone was afraid of how we would teach them that they should not live together before marriage. Engaged people feel that this is the main message of the church about sexuality today. Therefore, they already informed us in advance that they have been living together for a long time, or even have children, and therefore we should not instruct them in this regard. Most of the couples thought that preparation before marriage was about teaching them not to live before marriage.
Juraj: It was obvious that even those who grew up in Christian families were injured by violent upbringing in the faith. And they didn’t go to church because they were forced to do so in childhood. But now they feel that they would like to arrange their marriage for the sake of children.
After each meeting, Veronika and I said to each other that these people have not yet met God. They perceived that it is probably nice to have a culturally arranged marriage and formally profess Christianity, but that’s the end of it. Even the children did not plan to lead to the faith, leaving this task to the grandparents.
We really wanted these people to experience the joy of God’s presence in their lives, because God can heal inner wounds.
So what have you come up with?
Veronika: To the fact that the system of preparations for marriage is not only insufficient in our country, but also demotivating from our point of view. Sitting around the table and talking about the topics of Christian marriage is quite unattractive for today’s engaged couple.
So we came up with a proposal in the parish that we three couples, who voluntarily participated in the preparation of the betrothed, should be trained by experts either on a three-day course in Beck, or at the University Pastoral Center in Bratislava, or at another place where they have experience with more intensive formation. We wanted to bring better preparation to the engaged couple. We would suspend the preparation for the time being, as such a formation requires quite a bit of time in addition to work and family.
This proposal was not accepted, so we asked to be released from our service for the parish, we simply did not see the point of continuing with the training system set up in this way.
Juraj: We think that these preparations should look different today. Young people should experience a time of pause during them to have an opportunity to meet God. We know that in some parishes in Slovakia, three-day preparations are already being made with the participation of the priest and married couples, where there is an opportunity to talk, talk about what God is doing in our lives, the opportunity to go to confession.
We think that these preparations should look different today. Young people should experience a time of pause during them to have an opportunity to meet God.
We also see it as ideal if there could also be experts, relationship counselors, who would confront the engaged couple with real problems that later occur in marriages. Let them know who to turn to when something like this happens. It is ideal to touch on the issue of frequent problems in sexuality through the eyes of a sexologist. The area of basic financial literacy in marriage is also an important topic.
With that, did you want to respond to the fact that couples today go into marriage unprepared, even from a human and psychological point of view?
Juraj: Betrothed today can’t even communicate with each other, they don’t know each other. We can later reach God through natural human themes. But imagine having to talk about natural family planning to people who not only can’t pray, but can’t even talk honestly with each other.
In the church, we should already openly name what the reality is in this area, what kind of people and in what situations go to betrothal preparations. Those who form couples today are only inheriting nominal Christians who previously go through all the sacraments only on a formal level and enter marriage only on the level of doctrine, without a relationship and without really being confronted with the existence of God.
That’s why many people have false images about God, about the church, on a crash course for engaged couples, so we can no longer catch up on what was neglected. At the same time, this preparation may be the first and last encounter with authentic Christianity for most, why not make good use of it? A lesson on PPR won’t fix it.
At the same time, we should tell them the reasons why they should not get married. Verbalist Milan Bubák had also dealt with this issue at the former marriage preparations at the University Pastoral Center in Bratislava, which we also attended as engaged couples. After his personal approval, we used some of the materials in our presentation.
Young people don’t have time to think about their relationship, because they deal with work, household, family, but they don’t really know their negatives or positives, they haven’t communicated many topics and they just hope that time will solve them.
We know that there are countries where they have an annual preparation for the betrothed precisely because they realize what a serious commitment marriage is from the church’s point of view and that in this way they have the opportunity to introduce the betrothed gradually into a relationship with God.
Years ago, a significant reform of these preparations for the betrothed was carried out at the instigation of the Pope himself, and the aforementioned ten lessons were to be gradually introduced. So you say from experience that this change does not happen everywhere in Slovakia and it depends a lot on the setting of a particular parish or diocese?
Juraj: Exactly, it is very individual, it depends on the setting and possibilities of the parish, on the lay community, whether they will participate in these preparations, or whether they will be given space. Here too, it shows whether we as Christians are filled with the Holy Spirit. That’s not a criticism, just naming things from my point of view. We believe that when we name the challenges in the truth, we can ask God for a change. Because if there is no desire to serve in the parishes, it means that we do not have a living relationship with God, who calls us to serve.
One may not have to be an expert, sometimes it would be enough to tell the betrothed one’s testimony, how we strive for a relationship with God and with each other, how God acts in our marriage. After all, isn’t it wonderful to talk about it?
We try to live our Christianity in families so that we are effective and efficient for God, but not with God.
And it is true that the more people put into service in the parish, the less time it takes for one family and it can be managed better. Although it was difficult for us, it was also very enriching for us. Even though we felt that the meetings were not what they could have been, we as a couple were forced to talk a lot more. The service enriched us.
It can be different in Bratislava, as well as in big cities where there are lively communities, we mainly talk about our experience.
On the other hand, there has already been a certain shift. In the past, only priests made preparations for the betrothed, now married couples have been given space. Did you have materials available that you drew on?
Veronika: To be honest, the materials are, from our point of view, unusable due to the nature of the groups of betrothed with whom we came into contact. They are poorly written and difficult, I didn’t understand many things myself and I couldn’t even imagine how to talk about it to the engaged people who live in all kinds of situations today. Considering our audience, we couldn’t even get inspired by it.
We went to see the preparation of first-time adopters at the Salesians in Miletička, where thematic meetings are held not only for children, but also for parents.
Are the priests aware of the settings with which engaged couples come to the parish for preparation today?
Juraj: It is very individual, but those who work with young people cannot ignore it and will certainly confirm our point of view. We see a great benefit in the synodal journey, that we lay people will also start acting more confidently than before and offer our perspective on what is happening in the church. We should listen more in this new spirit.
Young people today need to meet both authenticity and experience in the church.
What do you mean?
Juraj: We should convey to young people what we have really experienced, it is not enough to just say what is asked of us. Not to hide the real difficulties of families, not to avoid the crises that arise in marriage. Do not repeat only learned truths.
In the church, we must rediscover the life that comes from God, that is our strength, that will also attract young people. God is not sentimental, but very practical because he changes our lives. A living believing Christian should be a practical Christian.
Here some would perhaps oppose you by saying that the preparation for the betrothed is perhaps the only and last option when young people encounter the truth about marriage, therefore it is necessary to take advantage of it and tell them the whole teaching of the Church, what is expected of a good Catholic couple, so that they know what they are committing to by getting married in the church.
Juraj: All the wealth we have in the church comes from Jesus’ formation of human hearts. Today we are approaching it from the opposite end. We should talk about what God is like and then get to the Catholic Church and the riches it has.
Instead, we talk about how we should be so that God will love us, and we destroy the image of God. God loves us unconditionally just as we are. He does not change his attitude towards us. But in order to be free, we must be careful not to enter into sin.
We need to know who comes to us for those preparations and what kind of life they live. An individual approach requires open hearts.
It is difficult to talk about sin nowadays, because people do not understand that sin is actually missing the goal. However, when someone gets to know God, he understands that the only happiness he finds is in a relationship with him, and his relationships begin to mend, wounds heal, and he begins to look at his life differently. And it will no longer deal with whether the church says this and asks that. The only thing he will be interested in will be the will of God the Father.
Veronika: The Pope set the path well and talks about exactly this dimension. He emphasizes that people come to know God based on how we love one another. So that people begin to ask the testimony of our lives: “How is this possible? Why do you live like this? Why are you happy?” With authentic people, people begin to ask themselves how it is possible that they are doing well, that they are at peace, even though everything around them is falling apart.
Even in the topic of sexuality, we present that we will go to heaven if we really comply with all that the church demands. They blame the Pope for preaching the path of individual approach. Today, we perceive it as a journey also in preparation for marriage. We need to know who comes to us for those preparations and what kind of life they live. An individual approach requires open hearts. Some things take time to understand.
The spirit of prosperity is spreading in Slovakia, which is based on the fact that if I fulfill this and that, I deserve heaven. It also happens in the Catholic Church. There is a growing group of young people who go on pilgrimages, pray, make sacrifices, fast, engage in the protection of unborn life, have various activities and expect that “Lord, you see, I am already doing all this, I have given all this to you and I I am now asking for a good wife, a husband, a good life”.
It is important to draw attention to this, so that it does not happen that we want to be orthodox, we want our children to be like this, and then some turning point occurs that throws us out of the concept.
The setting of the heart is important, because when it is open, God acts. However, we are not yet ripe for real dialogue. Do we give our children, spouses the opportunity to meet God? Are we listening to them enough? The fact that we list the priorities of the church does not mean that they have met God. Truth without love is like the slapping of a whip.
What was the reaction in your parish when you gave up your engagement formation service because you didn’t want to continue with the established system?
Juraj: We explained our reasons for withdrawing from the preparations. However, the others did not see it as a problem, so we parted ways. However, this direction was essential for us, so we could not continue with the original setup. But we didn’t even find out what others actually think.
In the church, we lack open dialogue, we are not taught to say what we really think. However, we saw that there was no interest in changing anything, so we abandoned the preparation of the betrothed for the time being.
There is still a strong spirit of clericalism in the sense, let’s do it the way we’ve been doing it, and that’s good. Every change is a pain, so we’d rather not even start it.
Veronika: It’s our Slovak phenomenon in the church that we place huge burdens on people, but we don’t want to carry them ourselves. People should not be afraid to talk about unpleasant things from their lives in Christian communities, and they should find encouragement that it doesn’t matter, we move on together.
We live in a rare time of the Synod, we walk together, one is lame, the other is in a wheelchair, another is walking, another is running, but we are going together. As believers, let us have the courage to name what we are not doing well, we are all the church after all, priests and lay people need each other. Don’t be afraid to talk about shortcomings.
People feel that Christian marriage is something very difficult, it is a set of things that must be followed. That is a great pity.
On the other hand, however, it is true that the church is the only institution today that offers preparation for marriage. If someone wants to get married at the office, he doesn’t have to go through anything like that.
Juraj: Exactly, the church offers it and it’s great that it does it. It gives importance to marriage and the commitment it represents. It is enough to make this preparation more targeted and practical. Precisely because families today have it more difficult than ever before.
Let’s be honest, no amount of preparation can save people, but it can offer them as much as possible so that their relationship can grow in truth. If only they realized that they have to work on the relationship, that the relationship will change, as children come, as we grow older, and that when we forget about the relationship, we lose it. What is Christian marriage? Inviting God into our relationship. But if I am not communicating with God or my partner, how can I invite God into our midst?
